WATER AGAIN

[joeysoap]

Meter is working ok Steve. Because it's on my path in front of the apartment I have an odd look at it and the EDP meter too. the bill in august is still showing the meter reading for June (I was out in August and got the camera's bills) so September will be a catch up bill, , but as I don't rent out and the apt was used only for approx 5 weeks since the last reading it will be ok.

[BobT]

Hi to all. A long time since I have posted, as we have not been living in Carveiro for three years. We do still have our villa, which is managed by a couple who live in the cottage next to the villa (and is on the same water meter) The villa is busy with rentals for most of the summer. We have had low bills for most of the year, up to and including the month ending July 15. The consumption for that period was just 40m3. Probably too low. The consumption for the month ending Aug 15 was 238 m3, Six times as much ! The bill for that period arrived on Monday Sept 19. The last day it could be paid! The villa was occupied for the same number of days in both periods with roughly the same number of guests. Having had the meter read by our manager, it looks like we have have a bill coming for 300 m3 which will be about 800 euros. 300m3 in one month means about 400 litres every hour, 24/7.

Having checked the meter by running off 25 carefully marked 20 litre tins, the meter is within 5%. There is no measurable leak. With all taps closed the meter showed zero consumption in one hour.

Nobody is stealing water. We have managers on site and clients in the villa for most of the summer.

The pool loses maybe 5-6 m3 per week, and the small lawn takes maybe 1m3 per week. No more than 30m3 per month is used externally. The rest has to go into the fossa, which we know does not soak away very well. With the villa occupied we have 10m3 emptied every ten days or so. The need to empty the fossa has not changed in line with apparent 6-8 fold increase in consumption. If the villa had used that much water then the fossa would need emptying virtually every day.

So. What is happening? Having spoken to a few other villa owners over the past day or two, I have heard similar stories.

One view is that the camara are deliberately invoicing lower consumption for much of the year so that they can then hit you with massive bills for one or two months and benefit from much higher overall income as nearly all the conumption is at the peak price. How many people check their meter if the bill looks a bit on the low side?

Any thoughts?

[joanne]

Villa is only a few years old and have been into the Bank with all my Bills, the Manager looked and said the Bills were not Estimates???Friend read meter Monday and is doing again tomorrow, her bills are 30 Euros a month and she lives in a decent size Villa, am going to see my Solicitor when out in 2weeks and see if she can look into this

[joeysoap]

My bills are miniscure compared to others on this thread, so I apologise for posting again. I checked my bank statement today online and the september debit from the camera for water is on it. minimum again (€2.01), and this only confirms what the rest of your are stating - the meters are not being read on a monthly basis.

[widge]

Like many of you my water bills vary from year to year without logical explanation. Here is the past 7 years annual costs for a 300 sq mtr villa in a 2000 sq mtr plot with irrigation.

Even before the most recent hike in IVA i reckon my costs have increased by 40% about twice the rate of inflation ! The costs in 2006/7/8 are very low - I know not why but would like to


WATER
Year Annual Bill

04/05. 2467
05/06. 3031
06/07. 358
07/08. 709
08/09. 3902
09/10. 3210
10/11. 3462

[pickwick]

At the prices quoted for water how many of you are thinking of a bore hole?

Pickwick

[cereza]

I had a high bill for July as expected but then a very low bill for August due to it being estimated. I phoned the Camara to query this as I did not want Septembers bill to be exagerated through a much higher consumption priced at Scale 4. I was assured that the August and September would be combined and the allowances for Scales 1,2 and 3 doubled acordingly. I'll wait to see if that's what happens but either way I am due a lumpy bill next time

I feel very sorry for Joanne - this is just the sort of nightmare you hope to avoid with a property abroad

[joanne]

Thanks for all the advice, I have today written along letter and put all the paerwork to my lawyer as wellgoing out next week so will try and sort but not holding out any hope, thanks again

[Rampage]

Our water bills also tend to fluctuate year by year. For comparison with widge's figures, below are our bills for the past 8 years (3 bedroom house with irrigation & pool, 1050 m2 plot)
2003 850.70
2004 1415.38
2005 1193.29
2006 808.99
2007 481.24
2008 1250.56
2009 335.47
2010 595.63 (first 9 months only)

Looking at the figures again there is a correlation between rental income to size of water bill - high bills coincide with high income = more guests = more consumption. Obvious really but it does indicate that my meter is working as it should.

[joanne]

I no what everone is saying but I dont rent and only use the Villa at the most 12 weeks a year, new villa so the meter is outside, friend was stood watching it yesterday and said not all the time, but every so often it moves...there is no one in the villa????Friend said there could be air in the pipes how is that solved??

[steve]

If the meter is moving with nothing being used to draw water then this points to a leak somwhere on your side of the meter. You can test the meter by turning off the tap adjacent to the meter on your side. If the meter only moves when there is a supply to your house I would contact the builder as the house is new and should be covered by a 5 year guarantee.

A friend of mine always turns off the tap on his side of the meter when there is an interruption in the water supply since he says that when pressure is restored the air in the pipes spin the meter like mad and artificially boosts the usage figure. I have no personal experience on this so I can't comment but others may have.

[steve]

We lost our water supply at about 10.00 today and when I phoned the Aguas section of the Camara they said that they were doing repairs in ADM and expected the supply to be back on at 17.30. I decided to use this opportunity to see what the effect of air in the pipes would be when the supply was restored. As we are on high ground I was concerned rightly or wrongly that we might be at the end of a long pipe run. I turrned off the valve on my side of the meter and went back at 18.00 to see if the supply was on. When I opened the valve the meter span round at an alarming rate and so I shut the valve again and loosened the connection from the mains supply to the meter. I could hear air escaping and it took many minutes before water appeared at the joint. I then tightened the pipe and opened the valve on my side of the meter. A small quantity was measured as the house system topped up again.

Perhaps someone with technical knowledge can state whether air pressure spins the meter more than water pressure.

[pickwick]

Steve

There you have it! Air will "spin" the meter but the difficulty will be in trying to convince the Camara that this is happening and therefore causing over billing. I would think the only way to proceed for those affected by unusual, erratic, unexplained bills would be to club together and get an "expert" written oppinion on the matter and then appoint a local solicitor to take the case up as a group type action against the Camara with a view to proving that the meters are not foolproof in these circumstances and seeking repayment/reduction. On your own you have no chance but if you can get the expert opinion and enough owners to club together you might stand a chance particularly if you go for an out of Court settlement and agree to non-disclosure!!!

Good luck anyway and I think you would have a decent chance.

Pickwick

[martin]

It has been a problem for years with letters many times to the local press about water bills being in thousands with no one even living at the persons villa.


Like all things how do you prove that the meter was wrong, someone did have an idea to get rid of air in the system when they wrote a reply to the Resident - perhaps it was this one , but not sure.


see here

http://www.ariafrica.co.za/M_040%20_met ... ection.htm

[martin]

seems to be a common problem (do a google search)

see here as well as well as the video on the site

http://www.arivalves.com/M040.html#