Alternative construction methods?

[Dave Gibbons]

After a long time of religiously reading the forums I am finally making a post.

Does anybody have any experience or knowledge of either Insulated Concrete Form (Seurobric at www.belpor.com ) or Light Gauge Steel ( www.algarve-steelworks.com ) construction?

We are currently in the process of buying a plot of land between Silves and Messines which will have planning permission for a villa. The recent hot summers and cold winter nights have made me wonder whether we should be looking at the alternative building methods for the increased level of insulation they provide. I would like to find out about the disadvantages as well as advantages, relative costs compared to traditional building methods and what problems would be encountered in trying to change the plans to reflect the new building method.
And of course, how they stand up to the summer fires

Thanks

Dave

[Guest]

The Belpor guys did build acouple of houses here as did similar designs by German construction companies.......They then both disappeared and wouldnt even answer their emails direct to Belgium.......and I don't know if they ever came back here.......shame because the system was good and the price only 15% more than traditional way of pouring millions of tons of cement and then knocking holes everywhere.......but this system is still not bad nowdays as they do of course use double block and insulation between....and then most people put a silly cheap window in without thermal breaks..and counter all the good work. The Steel people have popped up recently (four of them) mainly from UK and States.......prices are claimed to be much cheaper that traditional .....certainly they go up very very quick....they end up like those houses in California...they are managed by English builders which mean you usually dont the get the delays you always get with local builders ..but I personally still like the traditional or Belpor style and on price.....Steel should be cheaper ..there is one being build ..almost finished here..call up Steve and ask to see it and get a price.......on traditional anything under €800 a sq. metre is usually unrealistic for a proper house and usually ends up over 1000....

have fun.........it took 5 years of my life and grey hairs and almost broke me.......not easy here

[Dave Gibbons]

Thanks guest for the information. You seem well informed about building around Carvoeiro. Are you in the trade?
I've emailed both companies and am waiting for replies . I don't hold much hope with Belpor from your comments - may try phoning them later in the week to see if they are still in business and active at all in the Algarve. There again, using a company that doesn't reply when you contact them doesn't seem a good idea.

Dave

[Guest]

No I'm not in the trade ....but I do have years of experience building just one house here..and have helped many friends building theirs........I had to take over from my builder because they are in general pretty useless...dont understand latest methods and dont understand schedules / payments etc....They usually do not turn up to do the job on time (Plus or minus a week) and it's a very frustrating business.but many people are very happy to accept this and frankly have no Idea or dont really care about real quality....I do and to this end took things in my hands and I just 'Get involved' all the time. The quote they give you is never realistic and you will find that they get the order ...........and then the budget they have allowed for most things is not realistic........Be very careful.......There are some UK management firms that charge 10 or 15% to oversee the build....It helps but not Ideal ..if you can get somebody or yourself to oversee..then do that...
good luck and if you need any info pls reply and I'll try to help.......I should point out I'm super fussy.....a bit like the restaurants I visit.most people rave about them......I Know they are not good........Building is similar........But then..do you really care that the Mastik is one digit wobly...or the tiles are 1mm out at the join...I do....Most don't.........

[paramonte]

I diagonally read both web sides.

Regarding thermal bridges it is relatively easy to avoid them in the traditional concrete building way. Just offset the bricks a bit and cover the concrete with them. I have the feeling that termically, the typical Portuguese iron/concrete/brick/sement way may not be the best solution. It is a heavy solid material sucking heat. It is solid though. And Algarve is a seismic area. That´s other of my worries: these new construction methods seem (I may be wrong here) imported from places where seismic activity is very low or nonexistent.

Paramonte

[Guest]

Yes Agree.....The traditional Portuguese build is old fashioned and expensive and clumbsy..but it aint going to fall down.......I'm told that most new builds here (Single storey) could support a ten floor high rise......Its very true about day to day management.....OR ..just accept what comes and dont be too fussy.....most houses over ten years old here are a little Dampy around the edges...need painting all the time (No Gutters..very silly).......and are full of cracks...but we love Em-------

[Dave Gibbons]

Well, it looks like the choice is between traditional and steel. A colleague has phoned Belpor for me and spoken to one of the people named on the web site. THey are not interested in business in the Algarve any longer. My colleague commented that he sounded as though he wasn't interested in anything any longer. Why they still have the web site is a mystery.

We will be in Carvoeiro next week for a couple of weeks so will visit Algarve steelworks showroom in Boliqueime to get more information.
(they did respond to the email with information) as well as seeing the agent handling the land purchase.

Reports I've read on steel building in the States suggests that the houses are structurally stronger than traditional houses and can withstand hurricanes!

Guest, you sound like you would make an ideal Project Manager from an owners viewpoint, but a builders nightmare Have you considered taking up a new occupation?

I believe, especially after reading your comments, that we potentially have a building nightmare ahead, living in England, working in Belgium and only able to make occasional visits. Hopefully we can retire in 5 years and then move to the Algarve permenantly.

Dave

[Guest]

It is frustrating but at least you are prepared for all the hiccups......no I really dont want a new occupation thanks I'll stick to my old one.....retired ...good luck ..

[Guest]

I'm interested to hear how you get on with the Steel people......I had a quote from them but once I translated it to a REAL quote ie...tiles/ Bathrooms etc etc .......they were more expensive than traditional methods..even though they claimed they can build in less than half the time........

[Guest]

Had a look at one of these,the outside skin was polysterene(you could push your thumb into it) the details/mouldings were thicker pieces of the same stuck on!.It seems like agood idea but lots of room for improvement.Tiling to first floor could be a problem,with the heat and movement.I´m going to go with traditional
HP

[Guest]

ME TO..........

Seemed very flimsy-------better go with traditional and also they talk a good line about time saved etc..so why is it not cheaper..........look at Real costs....

[Dave Gibbons]

The Steelworks showroom has a large model showing construction methods. The reply from them said they were competitive with traditional construction methods but used better quality materials.

An outer wall made of polystyrene backed by a kind of plywood seems a little flimsy although it does apparently have a good international reputation.

It will be interesting to find out more about steelbuild, but I suspect that we will stay traditional.

I'll post about anything useful we find out on our return to the UK.

Meanwhile we're looking forward to our two weeks in the Algarve sun (only 3 days to go- we'll be there on Wednesday)

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

Dave