UK Foreign & Commonweath Office & GNR - WARNING

[pickwick]

Hi
When returning to Faro Aiport yesterday evening I saw the GNR Bridgada Transito out in force in the long term car park. I spoke to one of the offices that I know and he told me they were collecting the registration numbers of all foreign registered vehicles parked. He explained that it is illegal to leave your foreign registered vehicle in Portugal during the 183 days you can legally keep it here and they were targeting returning drivers and issuing fines and instructions to remove the vehicles from Portugal. He went on to say that 2011 will be the year of targeting illegal foreign registered vehicles and they are expected to issue at least 10 times as many fines and notices to remove than in previous years. He then went off with a cheery wave as there was a German getting into a German registered car (we have a Portuguese registered car and he had jump started it for me once which is how we originally met).

So if you have a foreign registered car here and you have had it here for more than 183 days look out as they are determined to maximise the income in fines:- See below from the UK Foreign & Commonweath Office web site

"As a tourist, you can bring your own vehicle to Portugal for a maximum of 183 days in any 12-month period. You must not use your vehicle for any other purpose than tourism or loan it to anyone else during that time. If you intend to stay longer, you must apply to the Portuguese Customs authority to have the car legally imported. You will be fined if you leave the country without your car."

Pickwick

[EMM]

There has been so much discussion regarding " overstaying " cars that no one whould be surprised to get caught in this new campaign.
Those of us who are regular vistors will have seen more than a few around carvoeiro and surrounding areas.

[laserblazer]

You will be fined if you leave the country without your car

That's a bit steep if you there's an emergency!

[sunman]

If the Portuguese didn't slap such hideous rates of tax on car purchase this whole business wouldn't be an issue

[EMM]

"If you do not like the rules of the country you live in then go back home "

Is tha not what we say in the UK when Immigrants do not conform to our rules.

[ANDY]

Totally agree with you Emm.

[sunman]

we are supposed to be part of a European Union, freedom to live, work and travel.

economic cooperation, single currency, single market, abolition of border controls - a union 'in which people, goods, services and capital move among member states as freely as within one country'.

all these the declared ethos of the EU

http://europa.eu/about-eu/basic-informa ... dex_en.htm

like many, I embrace the ethos and consider myself a citizen of Europe -

xenophobic statements such as go back to your home country belong to the racist 1960's and 70's. A democratic union such as the one we live in should live up to its mission statement.

[EMM]

Each EU country is responsible for its own tax regime.
Portugal conform to EU rules it is doing nothing wrong in applying its own tax on cars ( just as the UK does ) or insisting on certain conditions regarding residence ( just as the UK does ).
It has been reported that the GNR are active elsewhere in Portugal enforcing the rules on overstaying vehicles.

The EU is a group of countries whose aim is to take as much from it as they can and give back as little as possible.

You will see many member states applying tighter rules on residence, cross border meovement etc as states seek to protect their own economies and security.

[sunman]

funnily enough I agree with what you say; the bit I don't get is the assertion that if you don't like something that you should get out and go home

since the issue of tolls on the A22 has come up there has been a huge swell of objection from all round; locals, expat residents and tourists, what's to happen if they all don't agree with it? the locals move to Braga? all the expats 'go home''? tourists stop coming?

no, we're allowed to object to their introduction, as I object to many other things, but that doesn't mean I don't like living here

[EMM]

We are not talking about infringement of civil rights but the affect on our pockets.

I view much of what of much I hear from a certain type of expat ( n ot you Sunman ) with the same disdain I treat the views of some immigrant groups in the UK.
You refer to the locals, how do you think they view the expat who drives his illegal , untaxed, no Mot UK reg car, or claims various UK benefits on the basis that they " still " live in the UK.

I wonder just how many of them will leave Portugal and return to the UK when they get caught.

[sunman]

I think broadly the locals enjoy the expats living here, the reality is that they/ we bring much to the local economy, and it's year round. Someone told me recently that the population of Armacao de Pera is 3,000 and swells to 80,000 in August when the Portuguese flood in from the North and abroad, so it'd be fair to say that the area would suffer without the consistent support of expats.

One of the main problems in the struggling EU nations is basic tax collection; corruption and tax avoidance is endemic in Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal, much higher than the UK

so again I agree with you about disliking benefit cheats and the like, but Portugal and other struggling EU nations would fare a lot better economically if they did a bit of sweeping of their own doorsteps taxwise as well as camping out in Car Parks at airports.

[steve]

I do not see any objection to fining people who have a UK registered car here for more than 6 months -the same would apply in the UK- but it does seem a bit dracoian to fine people who do not exceed the 6 month period but merely leave their car here while they take a holiday outside the country. If this is the law it is a pity that it has not been more widely publicised. The answer would be to leave the car at your villa/apartment and take a taxi to the airport.

[James Faro]

Well this makes a mockery of the so-called free movement of goods and people within what is called the European Union. Arguably. somebody could bring a case to the European Court of Justice that the free movement principle enshrined in the various treaties has been contravened. But for that you need a butter mountain of money and expect to lose as the EU looks after its own: it is not there for us but for well-paid bureaucrats feathering their own nest! An example is the old duty-free discounts. That was taken away from millions of EU citizens BUT commissioners can still enjoy the benefits from it.

[Simnat]

Having a car here for over six months ok. But explain the English registered Chrysler doing airport transfers and taxi transfers from Carvoeiro which is ten years older or more.
No insurance. No mot. Explain how that helps the portuguese economy.
Dont the clients even ask how is it possible to do this when they arrive.

[Mike Banks]

Well this makes a mockery of the so-called free movement of goods and people within what is called the European Union. Arguably. somebody could bring a case to the European Court of Justice that the free movement principle enshrined in the various treaties has been contravened. But for that you need a butter mountain of money and expect to lose as the EU looks after its own: it is not there for us but for well-paid bureaucrats feathering their own nest! An example is the old duty-free discounts. That was taken away from millions of EU citizens BUT commissioners can still enjoy the benefits from it.

Firstly, there is free movement of goods, inasmuch as you are perfactly entitled to take your vehicle into any EU state, and keep it there for up to six months providing you stay with it. That is the law in Portugal, and it is also the law in UK, and to the best of my knowledge it is the law in every other EU state. It has been the law for at least 40 years in the UK to my certain knowledge and probably for a good deal longer. Why should you use Portuguese roads on a semi permanent basis, unless you pay the appropriate road taxes, and meet other legal requirements, MOTs, insurance etc.
Secondly, on the subject of Duty Free discounts, you appear to be unaware that there is NO import duty between EU states. That being so, how can any citizen travelling between EU states expect to have a duty free discount! EU citizens travelling to countries outside of the EU are entitled to duty free as they've always been.